Adult Fic-would not recommend to anyone under 18
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It's not just about being in the clouds.
Also click here to read an interview about writing The Bronze Horseman!!
Poco Allegreto--pg. 62
Sposo Son Disprezzata pg. 491 (lyrics are poignant)
Sposa son disprezzata
Fida, son oltraggiata,
cieli, che feci mai?
E pur egliè il mio cor,
il mio sposo, il mio amor,
la mia speranza.
Fida, son oltraggiata,
cieli, che feci mai?
E pur egliè il mio cor,
il mio sposo, il mio amor,
la mia speranza.
English translation
I am a scorned wife
faithful, yet insulted
Heavens, what did I do?
Yet he is my love,
my husband, my beloved
my hope
Nature Boy by Nat King Cole (Alexander's favorite song)
faithful, yet insulted
Heavens, what did I do?
Yet he is my love,
my husband, my beloved
my hope
Nature Boy by Nat King Cole (Alexander's favorite song)
Goodnight Saigon by Billy Joel. This is not played in the book, but I wanted to use it for the background to a story line that happens towards the end of TSG.
*WARNING: there are some graphic images. War is not pretty. You may also wish to have some tissue if you choose to watch this*
Click here for recipes from our series. :)
Possible wardrobes for Tatiana
*ahem* possible Shura swimsuit *ahem*
Exact colors and makes of their vehicles:
1949 Sage Green Ford Sedan
1947 Blue Chevy light truck
Nomad trailer
Deer Isle, Maine
Napa Valley
*I will post this in the comments as well, but here are some themes and topics to consider for discussion.
Themes:
* communication
*compromise
*respect
*enduring
*family
*hope
*forgiveness
Topics:
*PTSD
*women's lib
*infidelity
*romance after marriage
*pride
Bethel Island
Key West, Miami Beach
Double wide trailer home. I tried to find something circa 1950s. It was difficult.
Arizona (Pheonix, Scottsdale)
Bright Angel Trail, Grand Canyon, Arizona
closest pic I could find of the ring Alexander gives Tatiana on their anniversary. I'm thinking more of the pic on the right.
I would post pics from Vietnam, in honor of Anthony, but I think the video does it better justice.
From the White Nights in the Summer Garden to the blazing heat of the Arizona valley,
Our lovers came full circle
*sobs*
I really hate Steve. Like, worse than Dimitri. I loathe this SOB and right now I want to pop Alexander on the side of the head and say, "What is WRONG with you??? Why are you choosing to be so blind?"
ReplyDeleteAaahhh!!!!! I HATE HIM!!!!! (Steve)
Ok, now I'm wanting to take Tania outside and have a good, long talk with her. ARGh!!!!
ReplyDeleteI feel the same, LB, I'm torn between hugging Tania and kicking her a** and then hugging Alexander even more and then pop him on the side of the head for being so blind - especially with regard to Steve...
ReplyDeleteThe music is chosen so well; the piece by Brahms is so beautiful, tender and inspiring. The funny thing is that - IMO - it could be Russian, as if composed by Tschaikowsky.
I couldn't watch the Goodnight Saigon movie because of some legal issues with it in Germany but I'm sure it is heartbreaking.
THe music is haunting and I find that sometimes I can only listen to a few minutes before turning it off. No worries about Goodnight Saigon. If you know the song, that says it all.
ReplyDeleteYes, LB, and in my opinion it so amazing how Paullina can add so much more feeling to her stories by choosing the right piece of music in the middle of it. Whenever I will hear that Poco Allegretto by Brahms again I will only think of Shura and Tania!
ReplyDeleteOh my gosh I totally forgot to post the translation for Sposo son Disprezzata!!! I will do that now. It makes the song so much more powerful and meaningful in that particular scene, knowing the words.
ReplyDeleteOk, I stayed up until 2 AM finishing this book. (I still need your help girls because there are too many places and meals!) I cried again. I absolutely adore this book. I love all 3 books but it is this last one that is the meat and potatoes for me. TBH and T & A lay a great foundation for our lady and gent. But it is TSG that spans the 57 + years of marriage that pulls from the first year together to make their marriage work.
ReplyDeleteI know there are fans of the the trilogy who did not like this book very much and I can understand why. And yet as I have re-read the book and discussed these characters and their flaws and motivations, I have gained a better understanding of how and why things happened the way they did. Plus when I look back on my own puny 8 years of marriage, I see how and why things happened for the better and the worse. And yet here we are, still in love taking this journey together.
There are a great many things to discuss and I am so looking forward to our discussion! Feel free to start emailing any question or topic from this particular story you would like asked/discussed. Again there is so much and I don't want us to leave any stone unturned. :)
Oh and I give this book a solid 5!
OB, (and everyone)
ReplyDeleteI just saw Hanna and I really liked it. I loved Saoirse in The Lovely Bones. I know she was also in Atonement. I think she would make a beautiful Tatiana and could pull it off. What do you think?
Here are some pics everyone.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qifvYMRlc68/Te94GXyjLQI/AAAAAAAAFnE/PYoyYP0Wh9Q/s1600/saoirse_ronan.jpg
http://web.orange.co.uk/images/ice/film/saoirse_ronan_pa_photos.jpg
Oh and what about Jonathan Schaech?
ReplyDeletehttp://trialx.com/curetalk/wp-content/blogs.dir/7/files/2011/04/gcelebrities/Johnathon_Schaech-3-small.jpg
Hi LB!
ReplyDeleteI have to say wonderful pictures. Love! Love! The Wardrobe for Tatiana.
Yes, I really like her shes a great actress but I'm not sure for Tatiana. Let me think.
Oh! Jonathan is too old for Alexander but he definitely looks the part. I've not seen much of his work. I tend to build characters from the inside out. Most of the outside can be manufactured fairly easily but the inside not so much. U are AWESOME LB! Why do u think Jonathan would be a good Alexander?
LB- Everyone
ReplyDeleteWhy do u think Saoirse Ronan would be good as Tatiana? I think LB is onto something.....
Sony & LB-
ReplyDeleteI love reading your comments. I have a lot to say about this book as well. ITA agree LB it's a great ending to a series. I think TBH and TSG are my favorite. I have so much to say but will save it for later.
OB,
ReplyDeleteI love your sporadic posts!! hahaha!!!
Mmm....I'm pretty positive this will be the book review of the year! ;)
Well just look wise, I picked Jonathan. Yes, I know he is too old and I'm not saying he should be cast, but he has the look I tend to think of for Alexander. I'm sure Rob, or anyone else with extreme talent, could easily train to have Alexander's physiqu. I agree it's more about the inside, because it's what inside that shines forth. The few films I have seen, I thought he did a great job.
Ok, here is my overall take on whoever gets cast as T and A:
They will need to read the book several times each. I think they need to read the series completely. I think they will be challenged in the fact that they need to intimately know and understand their character through 50+ years. I think they need to truly understand the enormity of their character over a life span before they can bring it down to a minute detail. Mmm...kay, let's find a better way to say that. I think in order to understand Alexander and Tatiana as young children and teenagers/young adults, they need to know these characters from beginning to end.
Even though these characters grow and change throughout the years, knowing what they are like at 55, 60, 75 will determine how their youth was spent. I feel like they need to work the characters backward in almost a sense. Gaaahhh!! Does that make any sense? And I could totally be off my rocker!
As for Saoirse, I thought about her as TAtiana when watching Hanna. She is known but not major movie star status. She has proven she can take on some very serious and challenging roles. She has a natural beauty and I think that is how Tatiana is. Also, I liked listening to her speak different languages. And yes, I'm still stuck on them using Russian! hahahaha!!! :)
I have no bais toward her. I just know her for what I have seen and feel she would be fully capable of handling this role. She has my vote.
And lastly, you are so welcome for the pictures! I love her wardrobe too and that Thunderbird is my idea of a "good time" if you know what I mean. ;)
Themes and topics to consider for our discussion. If you have more, please add them! Also, to help our viewers, have page numbers handy! :)
ReplyDeleteThemes:
* communication
*compromise
*respect
*enduring
*family
*hope
*forgiveness
Topics:
*PTSD
*women's lib
*infidelity
*romance after marriage
*pride
My sporadic post are like my thinking LB. U have not figured that out yet? LOL!!
ReplyDeleteWell u make a good argument for Ronan. O.k. I'm sold... However, I don't see her with Jonathan. The chemistry is very, very, very important also.
U make perfect sense about knowing these characters over a span of time. I think whoever they choose they need to know who's shoes they were filling before putting them on.
I will answer your other Q later.
Oh no, definetely not Jonathan. I think I more or less used him as a physical ideal of Alexander. I really would not want filmmakers to go off the beaten path with Alexander's looks.
ReplyDeleteI would love to see what suggestions/predictions we made for these.films actually come to pass! :)
So I finally read TBTHC and it's so much better than T&A. What were they thinking? Anyway, I love, love, love Nat King Cole Nature Boy video LB. I'm still working on your above Q.
ReplyDeleteNo friggin clue, OB! I mean REALLY!!!???? ok, now it's my turn to ask, "What question?" haha!!!
ReplyDeleteps. Remember when the four are at Peterhof and they are asking what love is. Alexander quotes this song. *sigh* Yeah, I love Paullina. And when I listen to the song I can't help but now equate it with this love story.
LOL!! I'm referring to your discussion theme topics above.
ReplyDeleteI thought TSG was very emotional and intense book to read. The big theme which stood out for me was compromise. Especially after they settle in Phoenix they both compromise their marriage. He compromises his marriage with the father son relationship he's found with his new boss. She compromises her experiences in Russia with her family by trying to comfort people as a nurse. By the time they recognize what's happened they see how bad they compromised their marital bond.
The desire to recreate their immediate family in other people was a secret they did not share with each other or could not talk about. Yet, desperately wanted and needed to come to terms with. Why do u think they could not confide in each other? Was it too painful? I think getting past this issue kept them from moving forward in their marriage and growing family.
HI OB!
ReplyDeleteGotcha!. Did you read the link I posted at the top of the post. I thought you might enjoy reading it. :)
Hi Everyone!
ReplyDeleteFor those of you who can't make it to the live discussion, pop in anytime!
OB,
I loved your last comment and will come back with a response a bit later in our discussion. :)
How would you rate the book and why?
ReplyDeletePersonally I would give this a 6 out of 5, but will have to settle with a 5. I think this love story, having it seen it from it's very beginning and taking this journey with our couple through their winter years, gives us a real look at marriage/long term relationships.
We see their darkest hours and we watch them re-emerge stronger and better. We see two flawed, different people take the journey of life together because of the love they have for one another. Despite their hardships, they never give up on each other, and that gives me hope.
How has this story affected how you think/interact in your own marriages/long term relationships?
ReplyDeleteWhat have you taken/learned from this story?
Hi LB,
ReplyDeleteI would also give this book a 6 out of 5 if possible! At least a 5****! Sometimes I felt like being on an emotional rollercoaster with all the ups and downs between our beloved couple and although I wanted to go on reading and reading I realized that you need a break from time to time to let it all set and think about what happened between Tania and Alexander and ponder on the reasons why it happened. And what I learned is that it is vital in a relationship to communicate with each other and not swallow the pill and then be eaten up by it.
To be continued...
HI Sony!!!!
ReplyDeleteNow you understand why I had to take breaks from this book! It's exhausting and you really do need to sit back and reflect on the how and why of things.
I think Paullina's dialogue is very real and honest. Their conversations and lack of conversations really made their life moments stand out. You were able to understand where both Alexander and Tania were coming from.
I agree about the communication. And every couple will tell you that! Communication frees you from the prison of silence.
Hi LB,
ReplyDeleteyes, you need to sit back and reflect about nearly every chapter. To start with, I still don't quite understand why Tania was so afraid to go to Washington once more with Alexander so his "case" could be closed. Why didn't she have any trust in Sam? Sam had helped her over the years as much as he could, he would have supported her and Alexander furthermore in any way possible. Instead of that she prefers to live in constant fear and anguish which leads - strictly my opinion - to her treating Alexander the wrong way on so many occations because she is blinded by her fears. And since he doesn't realize her intention - to keep him hidden from all authorities - he cannot understand her strange behaviour and comes to the wrong conclusions regarding their relationship. It's like a vicious circle because both of them get the feelings of the other wrong. I hope I do make any sense...
Sorry that I have to leave now but I will be back tomorrow morning, greetings to all our other readers!
Hi Everyone!
ReplyDeleteHow has this story affected how you think/interact in your own marriages/long term relationships?
ReplyDeleteWhat have you taken/learned from this story?
For me, it has made me appreciate the needs of a significant other better. Not just sexual, but all around. It has also made me grateful for what I have and to never give up when marriage gets extremely difficult.
I didn't really learn anything new per se, buuuuut, this story reaffirmed the dedication and constant nurturing BOTH partners need to make a relationship work. It can't be one sided.
Hi Paris!
ReplyDeleteWhat would you rate this book?
I give it a "high" five. :-)
ReplyDeletehahahah!!!! That's awesome. I will put that word for word at the top of our post!
ReplyDeleteOk, In this last book, we get to really see Alexander and Tatiana's personality. Yes, experience has changed them, but ultimately, they are still the same people. Why do you think we love these characters so much despite their flaws?
For me, TSG has shown me that communication is key in a relationship and that even though people go through drastic changes they still are the same person you met at their core. I hope that makes sense.
ReplyDeleteLB,
ReplyDeleteBecause even though they are flawed. They are human and not some unattainable qualities that are made up by the author.
Yes that made absolute sense!!! And I agree. Once you shed everything away, the core is still the same. And yes, seeing them as realistic human being greatly enhances the story. Plus the life situations they had are all experiences that many people have themselves dealt with. These characters evoke a lot of sympathy as well as empathy.
ReplyDeleteIn our discussion at LIH on War and Romance in Comics and Film, one of our posters asked about Alexander.
"Alexander is obviously “Tania’s superman. He speaks multiple languages, he’s a click magnate, he’s big and strong and athletic, and he’s an excellent fighter and survivor. Other than starting his sexual life a little young I don’t remember him having too many faults. The environment tends to hone and refine all of his strengths."--Comic Relief
Yes, he does seem to be perfect on the outside, but inside he is a mess. A hot mess, but a mess. As far as insecurities and weaknesses. What would you say are some of his weaknesses?
omg...he's insecure for one because he still doesn't think he's good enough for her. I was just re-reading T and A the other day. He only feels like a man when he sexually dominates her.
ReplyDeleteWhat about personality flaws outside of Tania?
ReplyDeletehe wants to feel accepted so anyone that gives him that feeling he tends to migrate toward. Dimitri, Nicholas Ouspensky, Steve and his dad.
ReplyDeleteJinx! You said what I was going to say! Yes, he is very trusting. And it really bites him in the butt. Thank fully because of Tania's strength of discerning losers from good folk, she has been able to help him. Unfortunately he is stubborn and can't take her advice when it is first dispensed. He has to learn it the hard way. I think he got it by the end though. :)
ReplyDeleteWhat are some of his personality strengths?
ReplyDeleteWhat about Tatiana? Her weaknesses and strengths?
he's calm under pressure. For example, shooting Dudley. He didn't even bat an eye.
ReplyDeleteTania: Tania is a people pleaser. She constantly wants to do for others before she does anything for him. I don't think she realizes that he needs to be put first. She takes the fact that he is physically there for granted and she saw what happened as a result of it. Carmen.
Ugh, Carmen. I'm going to get to that.
ReplyDeleteYes he is calm under pressure, and to be honest, it's so sexy. So, so, ....*sigh*
They both are flawed in not telling each other what they desperately need at the moment.
I think their strengths are taking their flaws and using them towards each other. For example, when Alexander puts more trust into Tania than the Balkman's, things are great! When she puts her nurturing skills towards Alexander, they are both satisfied and happy.
Ok, let's talk about Anthony. Overall thoughts and feelings on his character throughout the story?
ReplyDeleteOh and what do you think of Saoirse Ronan as Tania?
ReplyDeleteok seriously??? I thought he was ignored alot because they kept dealing with each other. As far as the whole thing with Vicki.......I can't believe that T and A never questioned anything although they saw it. Tania did say they were like Dasha in that respect though.
ReplyDeleteI think unknowns should play t and a.
ReplyDeleteI have a lot to say about Vicki and Anthony, but I need time to write it. Honestly, I had to read that part and think about it ALOT to actually accept their relationship in some way.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if he was ignored because they had some wonderful moments. I just wonder if what we saw was just a glimpses of time in their family life. Does that make sense?
Paris,
ReplyDeleteWhat were some of your favorite moments in this book? Did you find yourself enjoying something so much that you kept re-reading it?
Ok, I'm closing up shop for now,, but will be back tomorrow! Have a wonderful night. :)
ReplyDeleteOne of my favs was a flashback Alexander had when he's in Vietnam of Ant and T and Ant runs and jumps on him and T is running to and then she stops and he says "Show me what you got, tadpole."
ReplyDeleteAlso when she's working at the winery and he gets jealous of the two guys.
bye!
ReplyDeleteOne of my favorite moments is a collection of time: I love when Alexander cries finding out they are finally going to have another child, seeing them pregnant and glowing at the restaurant, and then the ultimate: watching Alexander deliver his child and look at this little baby as the most amazing creation ever. Not that he doesn't love Anthony, but he missed out on watching his child grow inside Tania and then seeing him as a little baby. Now he has that opportunity.
ReplyDeleteOne of the passages that is so very sweet considering the size, nature, and physique of this great man:
"The baby stopped squirming, moving, crying; he relaxed all his limbs and lay sticky and small and completely still in Alexander's open palms, blinking, clearing his eyes, blinking, clearing his eyes, trying to focus on his father's face so close.
"Tania, whispered Alexander, pressing his damp son to his bare chest, to his heart. Look, Tania, look what a small, little, lovely, tiny baby." p. 527
Ok, I'm back.
ReplyDeleteParis, in response to your comments about Anthony Part 1:
I can see where it is possible they left him alone too much. However, I think we are just seeing snapshots of events in their marriage and there is more focus on T and A. We do get to see the three of them having fun in Florida and for all we know, there were countless other times they spent together having fun.
Anthony does get left alone more or goes to friends houses when Tania goes back to the hospital and takes her promotion. He also seems like a very quiet, reserved boy. He doesn't seem to be a rebellious teen and I think it is in part to the relationship he has with his parents.
Anthony Part 2:
ReplyDeleteAnthony is their Leningrad child. He represents everything of their old life. That does not mean they do not love Anthony. We can see how much his parents do love him and perhaps because of what he represents, they love him all the more. However, I do feel that having a children in the US allowed them to move on more fully with their lives. I really can't stand not having "Tatiana's Table" available to us in the US because I know there are little anecdotes of the family of 6, giving us a glimpse of what life was like for the Barrington's between Pasha's birth and Anthony graduating from the academy.
Which leads me to part 3:
Anthony's relationship with Vikki. Ok, I have to be brutally honest. When I first read about their love affair, I about puked and was totally grossed out. She was hooking up with a young man she had known as a baby and watched grow up. I really had issues. The more I read thought about it and re-read the book, I have accepted it and actually understand how it happened.
Anthony part 3:
ReplyDeleteI don't think Tania and Alexander were quite like Dasha when it came to being blind to it all. First, Vikki and Anthony got together on weekends and then when he moved away, his parents weren't around. And when they were around, why should it be unnatural to be "friendly" and loving (not making out obviously) with someone you grew up with? Basically. I just don't think it would ever have occured to T and A, or any parent, that a relationship would start.
Anthony wanted the love his parents had for one another. He saw them struggle and suffer, but their love for one another kept them bound and united. Vikki never had her own children, out of her own insecurities, but she absolutely adored Anthony. She gave him so much love and affection. Add to that she was a stunning women, Anthony probably felt that connection that his parents had for one another.
I would be interested to know what kind of dating life Anthony had if Paullina had written it. We know he wasn't a virgin when he hooked up with Vikki. I wonder if he felt like his father (when a young man) and culminate his maturity, physique, attention from Vikki, etc...it was bound to happen. She fought it, but Anthony's charms were like that of Shura.
This is just my opinion. :) it's what makes sense in my head.
Hi LB,
ReplyDeletesorry for being so late to the party but RL is very hectic at the moment.
I admit that the love affair between Ant and Vikki didn't upset me. The reason might be that I rushed through the parts of Tania alone with Ant in New York in "Tatiana and Alexander" and therefore I have no image of Vikki and Baby Ant in my head, I only remember them when Ant was already older. And I'm sure that when Ant was 15, 16 years old he saw Vikki as the beautiful, stunning, independent woman and not as his former babysitter (I think that after Tania's and Shura's return from Berlin the contact between them and Vikki wasn't that close anymore). And from the short description Vikki gave Alexander, Ant must have been relentless in persuing her and how could she resist him? He was nearly as beautiful as his father, charming like hell, intelligent, a super talented musician, of course she couldn't resist (I was howling with laughter about Vikki's sentence that not even Queen Victoria would have been sucessfull in this respect). And she really loved him; when Ant was back from Vietnam and his sister Janie tells him that Vikki said he may not be able to play the guitar anymore but he's still able to sing for her, that nearly broke my heart. All just my opinion, I hope I did make any sense. I'll post some more about your other questions tomorrow, LB, have a good day!
Sony,
ReplyDeleteHi!!! Don't worry, I think several of us are being kept very busy lately. This is the book most of us have been so excited to discuss and yet we're hardly here.
I agree with your summation of Anthony and Vikki. Couldn't have said it better.
Why do you think Alexander and Tania both had a difficult time listening to each other when confronted about slimy employers and taking on extra hours at the hospital?
Were you surprised about Alexander's behavior regarding going to the strip club? I was and that's because I felt he was past that, but then I realized it was because he was surrounding himself with dipsh*ts who had a very ill affect on him. It's easy to rationalize abnormal behavior. I honestly don't think he would have gone had he worked with more positive, moral, and ethical men.
Ok, I'll stop there for now everyone. :) I'll post more later.
Hi Everyone,
ReplyDeleteI'm really sorry I missed this discussion. I have a lot to say and will come back later. However, everyone's comments are fantastic to read.
Really great Q LB. They really make me think. Love it!!
Hi OB!
ReplyDeleteNot to worry. There is still so much I haven't even discussed yet! I'm just getting started!!! :)
I think we have all just been very busy lately and this book seems to require more focus when discussing.
Jess is almost done, so we may do another "live" discussion.
Yeah! ITA agree with Paris assesment of Tatiana she does take Alexander for granted. I really think she's to blame for Carmen & Dudley. I mean she decided to work in a hospital after Alex clearly had issues with it. Ultimately, it gave Alex permission to then give into his vices. So she created the mess in the end. The truth is she needed to come to terms with her family dying because it prevented her from moving forward. However, Tatiana is not content to give to one person she's a caregiver. However, she needed to find ways to balance her interest outside her family instead of letting her desire to help people take over her life. Does that make sense?
ReplyDeleteAnt & Vicki: Well I'm about as unconventional as they come. But I had issues with Vicki and Alex hooking up simply because she diapered him and now she's sleeping with him? Hmm! This is such a bad visual for me.LOL!! Anyway, I have no problems with younger men & older women dating. I think after a person reaches adulthood the playing fieled changes. It just depends on the couple who both need to be open minded and mature to handle it. I think Ant was attracted to Vicki because she was free spirited and mature. Remember he grew up surrounded by adults so he was fairly mature, curious and smart for his age. IMO! Younger women or women his age would probably bore him. Tatiana & Alex constantly told him to stay out of adults business. Soooo! It's a no brainer he would be attracted to older women. I just think Vicki happened because of opportunity etc....
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry Paris & LB. I still vote for R as Alexander and there is nothing anyone can say to change my mind not even R? If they go with an unknown they better be sure he can deliver...
ReplyDeleteThe defense rest it's case.=)
LB: Will be back later to answer Q if u have any.
OB!
ReplyDeleteI will ride that R train with you till the end. However, I won't throw a fit or temper tantrum if it doesn't happen. But if it does, I want to interview him!!! :)
I loved your assessments of A & V's relationship. Yeah that's what bothered me the most as well, but like Sony said, once Tania left New York, they rarely saw Vikki, so .....not as eeked out.
Oh, I'm working on more questions...I'm so lazy right now. My apologies. :( Stay tuned though!
Temper tantrums? Too late! I just threw one up above. Sorry LB!! Besides I typically call my tantrums debates. Paris been around a few of them. LOL!!
ReplyDeleteMore Q. This is going to be fun. I'm ready shoot!
I forgot to answer your other Q LB.
ReplyDeleteWhat did I learn from TSG? The costume designer will enjoy designing this film.LOL!! No seriously!! People grow and change and a real relationship makes room for that. I think Simons captures this really well in TSG.
OB,
ReplyDeleteI didn't hear any foot stomping so that doesn't count as a temper tantrum! haha! Next time I want SHOUTY CAPS!. :)
About a future film: I am really wanting a mini series. I would rather have an 8 hour movie of all 3 blended seamlessly. I KNOW! I KNOW!!! haha! :) I'll shut up about a mini series. I'm sure I can be swayed to enjoy it on the big screen, but for now it's all about giving the fans maximum story line.
As far as costume and even set design, Oh my gosh, it'll be a smorgasbord of amazing goodness!!!! I love seeing their styles change throughout the decades. Clothes say so much about a person. How one decorates their home, the car they drive, etc...You're getting me so excited OB!
Everyone,
ReplyDeleteI am working on my novel regarding the Carmen situation, but I would like to ask a few questions:
1) Did any of you see this coming?
2) If you did, what led to this assumption?
3) What could have prevented this incident?
4) Was Tatiana guilty as well?
Ok, I have more, but I will leave it at that for now. :)
Hi LB,
ReplyDeletesorry that it took me so long to post again.
The Carmen situation...I have to admit that I was blaming Tania a lot for it. First I couldn't believe that she decided to work as nurse in ER again just when she and Alexander had gotten nearly as close to each others hearts again (and how long did it take them!!!). Of course I wouldn't deny her to go working but if she had chosen to work in the baby wing of the hospital for example part time (five days of the week only until noon) and would have been at home in the afternoon I bet that this would have never happened. And I hated how deceitful she was, telling him it was only for a short time, omitting that she would work three 12hour-shifts. And even more when she accepted her promotion, being away over night. For me she clearly neglected Alexander and Ant; she was taking care of them w.r.t. to clothes and meals and keeping the house clean but she showed more love and sympathy to the drunken old man in the hospital than to her family. She didn't love Shura as she used to, he was no longer her priority but she was "escaping" to the hospital. I cannot understand what happened with her, why her work has become so much more important than her two men. And she knew damn well how much they both needed her - but there were always strangers who needed her more. Sorry for this rant but this was bothering me through the most part of the book.
Thank you Sony for your thoughts. I think they are wonderful. I'm away from home at the moment, but I will be back to respond and share my thoughts. :)
ReplyDeleteITA with Sony. Well said.
ReplyDeleteIf I may add.....Not to be a hypocrite but I understand her desire to help people. I just think she needed to learn to control her desire rather than taking over her life. Does that make sense?
Hi LB and OB,
ReplyDeletethank you! Yes, I understand Tania's desire to help people. But I don't understand why it became so overwhelming that it took over her life, as you said it so well, OB. She lets the amount of work grow and grow and although she knows how bad Alexander takes that she tops it on that certain Tuesday by telling him that she won't be home in the afternoon for him but will work "only 4 hours" at the children's hospital!!! I would have reacted the same way as Alexander, smashing the coffee cup and storming out. And I would also have ignored her attempt at damage control in the evening (decorating the house and cooking Boeuf Stroganoff) because it was just that, a feeble attempt. Because in her heart and mind she didn't understand or didn't want to understand the reason for Shura's anger. After her question "you can't be that angry with me because I work 4 hours at a children's hospital" I really wanted to take her and rattle some sense into her. Sorry for sounding rude but these chapters made me lose my temper on nearly every page...
Aaaahhhh!!!! I promise to get caught up today! I have so much to say.Basically, it comes down to very simple concepts to keep relationships successful, but we are all imperfect and therefore we really can't...crap, I'll just come back later when I'm not typing on an itty bitty little phone.
ReplyDeleteOooooookkaaaaaayyyyy....I'm back. First things first, thank you for the great comments ladies! I really can't add much to what you have already said, because you pretty much nailed it. But of course, I'm a wordy gal so here goes...
ReplyDeleteI did not like the Carmen situation and yet I felt it was a necessary evil to get these two kids to pull their heads out of their bums, strip everything away, and COMMUNICATE! They needed to destroy everything that had been building since Leningrad. Yes, they fixed things here and there, but not entirely. This was the boiling point. The more I read this entire sequence of events, the more understanding I had for each character. It didn't make it better, but I GOT IT.
What I particularly liked about all of this was we finally got to see Tania finally express some true anger. Up to this point, she was capable of stuffing things down or letting them go, but her husband's betrayal seemed to be the one thing that she could not sweep under the rug.
Paullina did not write Tania's POV losing her mind and shattering every single thing in the kitchen and brutally slicing off her hair with his army knife, but she didn't need to. How she wrote it from Alexander's POV was quite compelling. I prefer how Paullina chose to wrote that scene because my imagination of Tania was probably more intense than anything she could have written. Tania doesn't break dishes. She doesn't how fits of rage. And yet here she did. I felt her anger, suffering, grief, loss, pain, betrayal, and intense heartbreak. I visualized her probably having an outer body experience. Now, if you were to go back and read that scene again and play "Sposo son disprezzata", it takes on such a more powerful tone.
CONTINUED...
ReplyDeleteAlso I am not one for physical abuse at all and am still trying to figure out why the HELL Alexander hit her. Can someone please explain?
Crap, I just got distracted and can't remember what else I was going to say.
Uummm...yeah ok, I'll come back. HAHAHA! :)
.....Michelle Williams???????....
ReplyDeleteHi LB,
ReplyDeleteso happy that you are back!
And yes, the Carmen fiasco was necessary to get them back together, and I mean to get their hearts and minds back together, no lies and no secrets left out. I remember there was a line about Shura "he turned his gaze, his mind, his heart away from Tania" which I found heartbreaking because she didn't realize it, what an amount of damage was already done. And I wished she had reacted in another way when Alexander came to the hospital having lipstick on his cheek. If she had accused him, had scolded him, would have shown any sign of anger then Alexander would have realized that she still cared for him. By acting like a martyr, suffering silently and saying the last sentence about the lipstick so calmly he got the impression that nothing mattered to her any longer. I'm totally d'accord with Shura when he answered her question, what kind of reaction he exptected from her when she learned about his betrayal: (I don't have my book with me atm, so I don't remember his whole answer, but it was roughly like this): "I thought you would be a bit angry and then pat me on the cheek and forgive me because in your heart of hearts you don't give a rat's ass about me or what I'm doing." Yes, that's the conclusion I would draw, too. Until her final tantrum in the kitchen which I can imagine also very clear through Shura's POV, I totally agree with you, LB, it's written much more intense in this way.
When I started with TSG I had never expected that these two would grow so much apart that any betrayal would be possible, on either side. To be continued...
And yet, look how it ends. Again, I love this book for the reality of it's love and characters. No not everyone experiences betrayal this way, but every couple has their own obstacles to overcome. Some are greater than others, but if both parties are willing and want TO MAKE THEIR RELATIONSHIP WORK, it is possible through a lot of forgiveness, communication, love, and kicking anyone to the curb who is going to try and take your attention away from the ones you love. This book is full of hope. Shoot, I have more to say now. You got my brain working in overdrive, Sony!!!! I love it! :)
ReplyDeleteAhh! Sony and LB......U two have such a great discussion going on here.
ReplyDeleteThis is what I love about these characters Alex & Tatiana is how real they are. TSG culminates to such a degree where u wonder if they actually existed. True and pure reactions to hurt, betrayal and jealousy are written so honestly (although I don't believe in physical abuse) Most will blame the man if he defends himself against a women hitting him. Especially if he's twice her size. But physical abuse is physical abuse no matter if u are a man or a women IMO. I believe Tatiana got what she was asking for unfortunately. After all she knew how to push his buttons and all I kept thinking when she was hitting him. Wow she really has a death wish!! She needs a time out stat!!
LB U Said: "No not everyone experiences betrayal this way, but every couple has their own obstacles to overcome. Some are greater than others, but if both parties are willing and want TO MAKE THEIR RELATIONSHIP WORK, it is possible through a lot of forgiveness, communication, love, and kicking anyone to the curb who is going to try and take your attention away from the ones you love."
ReplyDeleteLove IT!!!
Did anyone conclude that Alex's behavior with Carmen was a pattern? His reaction mimicked his behavior of when he slept with his mothers friend to get his mothers attention in Tatiana & Alexander. I think Alex used sex as a weapon when he could not communicate his greatest fears to the women he loved. In this case he feared Tatiana developed feelings for another man yet, could not bring himself to ask her. So his solution was Carmen. I hate to say it but I saw this coming a mile away.
Sony U Said: "But I don't understand why it became so overwhelming that it took over her life,"
ReplyDeleteMe: Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries should be drawn even within yourself. I think this is what ruins many relationships is the lack of them. Tatiana did not take care of those things that were abundant in her life and over indulged in things she did not need. It's called greed....IMO!! I hope this is helpful Sony.... I must say how much I love reading your comments about these characters. Always, such great analysis.
HI OB!!!! At Disneyland, but had to stop in and say I love your comments. :) Real quick, I saw it the moment he didn't say anything about Mr. A$$hat's naked painting in the office and Alexander.didn't say anything. Alexander's tolerances started going down and just because he formed his own company didn't make his standards automatically improve. I also agree with your analysis. Ok phone typing is killing me. I shall return...
ReplyDeleteHi LB and OB, thank you so much for your kind words! I love our discussion here, I really do. And you are both right, you need boundaries within yourself and for your relationship; and you must learn to realize when it's necessary to draw a line so that your partner will be the priority in life and not somebody else.
ReplyDeleteShall I tell you about the scene where I nearly hated Tatiana? It started on the Wednesday morning when she tells Alexander that he has to come to the Christmas party at the hospital and he stands there, "angry and naked, morning-and-Tatiana-inflamed" and she watches him warily and comes back to him with a great sigh. As if he was a petulant child who gets on her nerves and now she has to spend even more time with him. It goes on in the evening at the hospital party where she is in great spirit with her colleagues (and where Alexander is not amused at all to see Carmen again), where she lets Bradley kiss her hand and then dismisses Shura saying "little barfly,fly away. Shoo." Alexander is right when he accuses her that he's now Kirov instead of Alexander (her answer that he is "saying every nasty thing he can think of" shows IMO that she really doesn't understand him at all any longer). Their whole conversation in this scene shows how much apart they are. "She IS glad that they don't have a baby, she's got nothing left for a baby, everything she has goes to that f**ing hospital." But the crux for me was the morning after, when she is having lunch with Bradley and she says: "...promised for life to someone else". Alexander was now SOMEONE ELSE. I know she was ashamed afterwards, but that was too late for me. And even worse was her answer to his question: "Is there no chance for us, no chance at all". For her "Not in this life" I wanted to slap her - and I assure you that I absolutely hate physical abuse- but I wanted to shout at her "Not in this life, not in your next life, in no life ever were you meant to be with someone else than Alexander!"
Phewww, I'm sorry for this long rant but I really would like to know your opinion about this, maybe I'm totally overreacting...Have a good evening and I promise my next rant will be about Shura.
Sony-I enjoy our discussions too. I love every ones mad character analysis skills. However I must defend Tatiana here's why.
ReplyDeleteSomething I like about how Simon’s constructed Tatiana’s character is by showing both her strengths and weaknesses. Up until TSG we see her remarkable strength. But in the TSG we see the cracks in her strength give way. Readers are shown how Tatiana is coping with the traumas of loosing her entire family, surviving the War, the realities of PTSD, being a mother and wife. All this culminates and erupts in Arizona. We see her guilt for not saving her sister Dasha. We see her guilt for marrying Dashas boyfriend. We see her guilt in not saving her brother Pasha. We see her guilt for leaving Alexander in Russia and the physical and psychological damage he endured to save her life. We see her guilt for leaving Anthony to go save Alexander. All this guilt she tries to resolve by helping others in the hospital. Unfortunately, the reason she neglects Alexander and Anthony because she feels guilty for their happiness. Her happiness with Alexander is a constant reminder she used his love to survive Leningrad and Dasha and Pasha had nothing and perished. All this prevented her from moving forward.
OB and Sony: great comments and honestly I agree with both thoughts! You've already said it so well. Sony, when Tatiana started working those Friday nights, Alexander started going to the bar with his single buddy. I know Tatiana did NOT like that, but it was her choice to work when she knew Alexander didn't like it. I thought her barfly comment was a bit of a dig at him attending the bar every weekend. I personally thought she was in denial when he was making those comments about how he had become the Kirov. And OB, I also agree with your comments. Both needed some serious therapy. Honestly, I think any couple, married or not, could benefit from annual, bi annual, monthly, what have you marriage counseling. Obviously if things are good you don't need to go often, but it's probably not a bad idea to have an "outsider" help bring up issues that may have gone unnoticed or unattended.
ReplyDeleteBoth parties are guilty of letting it get to the point that it did and yet again, like I said before, it was like one of those moments in time that NEEDED to happen to get them to get out all their anger, sadness, frustration, guilt, misery, and whatever else was boiling.
Ok, now for the part where they are having their knock down drag out fight: when Tatiana said she would rather take a coat hanger to herself than have his baby-- I think she was just trying to make Alexander hurt as much as she was. She wanted this baby. It was obvious when she dressed in her camisole and made him Blinchiki!!!! Now Alexander was definitely off his own path because it didn't even dawn on him that there was a special occasion and he'd known about the importance of Blinchiki growing up in Russia!!!!
Ok, now as far as Alexander not thinking Tatiana would care about the extramarital affair, Sony, I think it is yes and no. Yes, he thought that, but I don't think he believed it because several times after that one night with Carmen, he is coming up with stories: Poker with Johnny, spilled my beer and he keeps repeating this to himself. When Johnny can't be his alibi he moves onto his friend Tyrone (?). I think there really was concern. Maybe I'm wrong.
And honestly, I think her response at the hospital seeing his lipstick is where we see the Tania we know and love completely switch off. She has been strong, brave, fierce, and solid as long as we've known her up to this point and this is where we see her kind of black out emotionally from her family. She doesn't make dinner, she doesn't grocery shop, do laundry, etc...It's a shame we really don't know what she was thinking between then and the night they "bring in the kitchen sink". I think she went out with the doctor, she was trying to get back at Alexander and couldn't.
I hope that all made sense! haha!!
Alright ladies, here are some other questions that have been burning in my brain:
ReplyDeleteAnthony was their child of Leningrad, and with him come the memories of their past, including 15 years being an only child. Their other children are children of freedom and a new future. Do you think there is a distinct difference in their relationship with Anthony and the other children? Do you think there is a different reverence and love?
I cannot help but think that even in their older years, when they look back on their lives and the children they have, that there isn't something extra special with Anthony. Gosh, sorry, I'm getting emotional just thinking about it and I can't find the right words to describe what I'm trying to say. I guess it's because I hold Anthony very dear to me. He is such an important part of their history before his birth and after. I just adore him and...yeah...I need to quit for tonight. :(
LB- U are right on target and that all made sense to me.
ReplyDeleteTo answer your Q. I think I stated before. Leningrad was so traumatic for both Alexander and Tatiana that in order to keep from going crazy they avoided talking about it. Alexander avoided talking about his family with his son and Tatiana. I think Anthony for them was their reminder of GODS blessing, love, hope and mercy over their lives. In a lot of ways he gave them hope and freedom. I think people feel GOD has left them after they see huge miraculous things happen in their lives and begin to question their faith and purpose etc....
I say this all the time. Just because u want something does not mean it's good for u RIGHT NOW. Sometimes God needs time to prepare u for the blessing. I think we get impatient and try to resolve it on our own and that's where we create a mess.
I think Alexander not discussing his family kept him from comforting Tatiana over her family. In the end they tried to find comfort individually and created a mess. Does that sense?
Ok, I am back, but just to say, I still have more comments to say about this story. I just get too stupidly emotional to write it down...so I'm waiting until I can think about the end and not get teary eyed. :) Dang pregnancy hormones...
ReplyDelete